Fly on the Wall

WELCOME! WELCOME! I'm SO EXCITED you're here. YOU are a great runner and have so much to contribute. Look forward to reading all about your training. HAVE fun "leading" the group run on BST in the morning.

Fly!!

Very sweet to find you here. I love checking everyone's blogs. Always a huge motivation for me to work harder!! Can't wait to see how you train.

Glad you here! Have fun on your run in the morning.

(gumpchump)

FLY WHATS UP!!! Welcome to the blog man. Just getting on to make sure of your address. I have been waiting for a long time to run BST. Should be a blast with Andy and you. Welcome again bro.

Welcome to the blog Fly!

If your dream of a sub-3 marathon is a secret why did you post it on the WORLD WIDE WEB? I think that you are closer to achieving that goal than you think.

Fly...Glad to have another post I can read. I look forward to reading about your sub-3 marathon!!!!!

You da man fly! Glad to have you on the blog and I look forward to following your training.

Thanks again for putting this run together Fly. It was very enjoyable and a great change of pace. Also thank your wife again for coming and getting us at the end. She is awesome. Looking forward to doing another one with you and maybe a few more.

Hey Fly...

Glad you made it over here. This blog is great motivation and it's a lot of fun keeping in touch with everyone and seeing what you all are doing for your training. Before I came here I had no idea how many miles everyone was putting in each week. I was astonished to see how little I did compared to everyone else.

Thanks for inviting me on that run. Wish I could have made it.

Dale

Yeah ... no way I am ever running with you boys. After reading everyone's insight on the run today I am 100% convinced that you are all too hardcore for me.

Super nice brutal run though!! WOW -- didn't even seem to phase you.

Well I was a bit sore yesterday and today feeling alot better. That sure was a good run. I am looking forward to running it again. Thanks again.

WOW!!! AWESOME intervals, VERY IMPRESSIVE splits. Day 1 looks very promising. 9 weeks huh? Is that 'till Painter's Half? Yikes! I better get my rear in gear Keep up the good work. THANKS for sharing. You're one talented runner.

I can't wait to see how this program works out for you. Very cool.

What was up with your 6:58 split though??? (That was my attempt at your solicited "rude comment.")

Unbelievable how fast you are!! Nice workout today!

Great run Mark. Man, you're fast!!! ARE you training for Painter's in Jan? If so, what time are you going for?

Dale

Great interval workout Fly. Will be interesting to see how it works out for you on the new program.

Thanks for the encouraging feedback. I'm training for Painters, which is only 9 weeks away. I ran it in 1:34:33 in 07. I'd like to better that time. I'd really like to be just under 1:30 but I'm not that fast, as evidenced by the 6:58 split (insert winkey smiley face here). I'm trying to work my way toward that goal though. I'll see how my training goes then pick a goal time.

Nice workout Mark. I will be running Painters as well this year but your last year time of 1:34:33 looks pretty good to me for my goal this year. I think I came in around 1:38 last year.

Fly - wow what a work out I thought I was doing good with my 6X400 repeats. Maybe I should step it up... Nah maybe next year.

You will be so fast a painters!

No rude remarks here. Very impressive. Good job and good luck at Painters. I am sure you will do it.

Not too tired is always a good sign. Can't wait to see how your workout goes tomorrow.

I started tarining for a half marathon that I'm registered to run on Feb 1st.Then I injured my knee and my foot. I'm hoping I can recover and train (starting at almost zero) and stillrun it. I'm not looking for fast, I'm just looking for a finish. would you mind posting a link to the training you are using?

Great job man. Looking forward to seeing todays work out.

Good luck with the foot and knee. Are they on the same leg?

This is the the training plan I'm using: http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-244--6851-4-2X5X8-4,00.html

In the past I've used and really liked Hal Higdon's plans: http://www.halhigdon.com/halfmarathon/index.htm spell

Right foot, left knee. I'm able to do the elliptical glider most days for 60-90 minutes, and I do upper body and ab workouts on alternate days (push ups are out as I do them girl-style)

I'm hoping that when I can get back to running I won't have lost too much ground...

Thanks for the links. I like reading them the way I read cook books. I take in all the info then just go make up my own thing. :)

Fly, I didn't now you had a blog. Glad I found you.

hey, here's a very late "welcome to the blog". You are freakin fast! Good luck training for Painters. It sounds like you are going to kick tail.

...um, are your two totally adorable children palying with legs in that picture...?

Also, what kind of big dog? Not to hijack your blog (sorry), just curious.

Hi Camile. Thank you for the welcome.

Hey Rhett, I just got here.

"...um, are your two totally adorable children palying with legs in that picture...? " I believe the pc term is prosthetic limbs. But, yeah they are legs. I found a whole bunch of them early one morning while on a run. After my run the whole family went back to the pile and we each picked one out to take home. Each Halloween there after we've give one away to a special friend or neighbor.

Our dog is a standard poodle. When standing on his hind legs he is taller than my wife. And no he doesn't have one of those bizzare haircuts.

... So a few blocks from my house is this rundown cinder block building with a sign that reads, Artificial Limb Co. I used to wonder if they really made limbs. Every summer we have a neighborhood cleanup day where you can put large items out on the curb for garbage pickup. I guess the Artificial Limb Co. was cleaning out one of its back rooms or something because they had a large pile of legs out on the curb. It was so bizarre that I couldn't resist going back and grabbing a few. If any runners with a modern prosthetic happens to read this blog, I hope they don't find this offensive. Perhaps I should change the picture? But I kind of like the odd juxtaposition of my "totally adorable children playing with legs."

It's a great picture. And I wondered if you were going to say they are yours. I was about to be AMAZED at your sspeed. But since they're not yours to use, I'm simply "impressed." :)

I've heard those are great dogs. Is it true they don't shed? My two tiny goofballs manage to keep this house in a constant state of hairy-ness.

It's true they don't shed. Their hair is like a persons and if you don't cut it, it will grow to the ground. This is the first dog I've had that doesn't shed. I don't miss the hair one bit and I breath easier as well.

Btw, just noticed your personal info Fly. Funny!!

Wow, that was a great work out! Is that goal race pace for a 1/2?

AWESOME workout again. You're a manimal.

LOVE your avatar. You should change your title to:

"Got Legs" or "Legs R Us" "Daddy Got the Real Ones and They're FAST". :)

Great work out Mark that is one tough set you did.

Wow!!! Crazy speed!!

Can hardly wait to see how this all translates at Painters.

Thanks for all the encouragement. Yes that is goal race pace for a 1/2. I just hope it translates to a realistic race pace at Painters.

Yeah, after that killer workout yesterday, I bet you felt a little fatigued. Recovery miles are just important as the fast ones. Nice run.

Great job taking it easy. Speed work kills me more then anything else too.

Nice recovery run, Mark. I'm sure you'll feel better tomorrow.

Dale

I guess I am really not doing my speed work right if I dont feel "fatigued" a day later. Shoot that means I have to work harder! Can't we just get faster by wishing?

You must be doing it RIGHT. Don't you love it when you're textbook perfect?

Great job getting it done with your super busy schedule. Looks like you got in a good hilly run too. You made each run "count", don't you. AWESOME dad and runner!!!

If your slowest mile was 11:26, that's still pretty speedy for a potato :)

I notice the " 32 degree cold" now is different than the "32 degree cold" in Aug or Sept say at the start of Park City or TOU. That "arctic" cold must take longer to warm up. Good observation.

You're still one fast stud (er spud). Nice long run with some TUT (Tough Uphill Training)to boot.

I wish I could keep my heart rate that low while running. Just out of curiousity, what is your resting heart rate?

You're so stinkin' spudly!! (Couldn't resist.)

Great run. I've had runs where I didn't dress warm enough and it makes the run miserable.

Dale

Great job man. It looked quite steep at where we passed over city creek. Hope we stay at 32 for a while. But I think it is only going to get colder.

32 degrees!!! I'd be on the treadmill. Good job. I hope it stays dry there so you do have to sludge through the snow.

Thanks for the encouragement!

I'm not sure what my resting heart rate is. At my desk this morning it was 60bpm. So it is something lower than that. If I think of it I'll check it in the morning.

I'm also not sure what my max heart rate is. I've had it up in the high 190s, maybe 198bpm, but that was with my old monitor. With my Garmin I've only gotten it up to 187 (at a 5k earlier in the month).... So go figure.

For an unmotivated and dreaded run, you did AWESOME with IMPROVEMENTS from last Mon's speed workout. VERY NICE!!! Was that (following the co-workers) a motivation or peer pressure?

As for rude remarks... Hmm, what's with using Garmin for the 200m repeats? Couldn't you think of some other brilliant way to time and measure the repeats? I wouldn't know how. I was thinking may be I'd wear two watches. (OK, was that rude or silly remark or just a comment from dumbo me.)

Great workout Mark. You did great. I have yet to run a real interval workout with my Garmin yet. I still need to figure it all out. I am leary of using it too for the shorter distances too. I do feel better about the longer ones that is for sure. Great job again man.

Man alive ... how am I suppose to find any fault in that workout!! Stink!! Glad that Smooth had my back!! :)

I still don't get how your heart rate is so low. Are you just a freak of nature or is my heart rate too high?? You never did tell me what your resting heart rate was.

Seriously, nice run today!

Do you program the workouts into your garmin?

Great run for not being motivated. Those kinds of runs are rare. Great job getting it done.

Dale

"Was that (following the co-workers) a motivation or peer pressure?" Running with these young ladies is a motivation :)

"I still don't get how your heart rate is so low. Are you just a freak of nature or is my heart rate too high?? You never did tell me what your resting heart rate was." I did, look at Sunday's blog. I will try to check my resting heart rate this week and my max heart rate at my Turkey Trot.

Max heart rate is genetically set and not an indication of fitness. The % of MY max heart rate is an indication of how hard I'M running. Either I'm not working hard enough or my max is lower than yours. What is your max and resting? Generally men have a lower max heart rate than women and older people a lower max heart rate than younger. So I probably have a lower max than you.

I think these are the norms,

Women: 226bpm -age, +/-15 or more

Men: 220bpm -age, +/-15 or more

"Do you program the workouts into your garmin?" I had forgotten I could do that. If I can find my manual or find the time and motivation to look it up on-line, I might try to figure out how. Are you a Garmin workout programing expert?

Nice work out Fly. I like reading your track workouts. They help motivate me. Keep'em up.

I am the programming unexpert. I tried to program Yasso 800s in, but I couldn't get the recovery lap to be a certain time. If anyone ever figures it out please let me know.

I tend to go to my gizmo geek friend for my garmin issues. Jeffc he has really helped me get mine working right for me. I am still a newbie though.

What part of Salt Lake are you in. I'm always looking for running partners and I am guessing by your many posts and your times we might get along splendley. I'm out in Draper most of the time.

Hi Matt, Who'd have thought I'd run into you here? By my "posts" I'm guessing you are referring to that crazy thread and not my running posts. Sometimes I read that other thread and feel a bit saddened and disheartened. Other times I read it and laugh, not a dark cynical laugh but a lighthearted chuckle.

In the spirit of the latter...

I live in a neighborhood that is surrounded by Brigham Young's grave, "the" Church's world headquarters, Temple Square, and the Utah State Capitol. Ironically this neighborhood is now described as "Utah's gayest gayborhood."

Had you suggested we run together last week when I first started reading that other blog thread, I might have thought you were crazy and hesitated. After reading more I am certain you are crazy and have no hesitation about joining you for a run, I would look forward to it!

For better or worse Draper is quite a ways from here. Do you ever find yourself around downtown on Friday or Saturday? (I also run on some Sundays if that works for you.)

Thanks for stopping by, Mark

I believe the main two components of your max HR are aerobic fitness and neural drive. Increased aerobic fitness lowers it, increased neural drive raises it. Your race pace is also controlled by those two, except both improve it as they increase.

Decreased HR at the same pace is possibly good news, but do not get too excited. Aerobic gains, but you will not necessarily cash out on them as much as you hope. Decreased Max HR could be bad news - drop in neural drive with no aerobic capability change, or failure of the nervous system to fully utilize the newly developed aerobic capabilities.

Having said that - most healthy men that cannot break 3:00 in the marathon should be getting excited when their HR drops at the same pace. Your average male has plenty of neural drive to run sub-3:00 and is usually being held back due to the lack of aerobic conditioning. Which is why the blog standard "run easy pace for long enough 6 days a week, do not skip" has produced so many marathon breakthroughs.

Wow! I have an undergraduate degree in biology and am a doctor of optometry, meaning I have taken a lot of physiology and other science courses, and I had to read that 5 times before I kind of got it. You must be a genious physiology guy Sasha. It was very interesting to read though. I'm glad you posted it.

Thank you for the input Sasha. I am a self taught/ self coached runner with no physiology or sports background to speak of. I didn't start running til I was 35. Thus I am always hoping to learn more.

"...max HR... Increased aerobic fitness lowers it, increased neural drive raises it." But I have read that max heart rate can not be changed with training. How and why do you believe aerobic fitness changes max HR?

Can one, and if so how, increase neural drive through training? Also how much of neural drive is inherent to an individual/ how much of it is a "gift of God?"

Given constant or increasing aerobic training, do you believe max HR declines with age?

"run easy pace for long enough 6 days a week, do not skip" To run my marathon PR, 3:08 at St. George last year, I used Pfitzinger's 18 week, 70 miles per week or less (6 days a week) training program. I felt like I was getting in enough miles but didn't have the speed to go sub 3. (This year I ran the Slam and thus spent a lot of time recovering between races.) So my plan this year was to do more speed work and shorter races while training for a half (Painters). Then either another 1/2 or full in spring followed by hard training for St. George using the 70 mile, 18 week program with overall faster paces and/or more speed work. ANY THOUGHTS or RECOMMENDATIONS?

Again thank you for the comments. And thanks for setting up this site.

Fly on the Wall

My max HR in 2000 was 191, best marathon 2:35:46 on TOU course, old Draper Days 5 K 15:59, HR at marathon pace around 160. By 2004 it dropped to 172, best marathon was 2:24:47 (St. George), TOU course 2:27:46, old Draper Days 5K 15:37, HR at marathon pace 157. A slight loss of aerobic fitness allowed me to hit HR of 175 at the top of the hill in Strider's 5 K in 2006, the time was 17:06, probably worth 16:00-16:10 in Draper Days. I have not seen it higher since, but not much lower. I can still hit 172 on a good day. I would agree that it would be difficult, although not impossible, to raise max HR with training, but it is very easy to lower it.

My resting HR has always been 48 since teenage years (I am now 35). I can get my heart to hit as low as 44 for a minute with a trick - very light exercise for 30 seconds, then wait about 45 seconds or so and count right then. But it is never below 48 for any significant period of time.

Given the same level of aerobic conditioning, or even more relaxed constraint - given the aerobic conditioning is good enough not to be a limiting factor of running performance in an all out mile, Max HR declines with the loss of the neural drive, which eventually happens as you age.

Neural drive responds to training some, but not nearly as well as aerobic conditioning. To develop it you need to run fast. Hill sprints, interval work, even tempo runs help. You also need to sleep well, and avoid stress. The trick to training the neural drive is that when you reach a nervous system overload, the symptoms are very difficult to notice.

There are also different aspects of neural drive, just like with the muscle fiber itself (fast-twicth/slow-twitch). There is explosive power aspect, and there is sustained power aspect. It is easy to mistake the lack of sustained neural drive capability for the lack of aerobic conditioning. The only difference you'll see is aerobically unconditioned runner during interval work will have his HR very high for a while after the interval, while the neurally weak (endurance wise) runner will have his HR drop very fast, but still will not be able to hit a fast time on the next interval. The aerobically weak runner will run faster if you give him a longer recovery, while the neurally weak runner will not.

To see if your problem is aerobic conditioning or neural drive run an all out 100, 200, 400, 800, mile, and 5 K, and post the times. Do not do it on the same day, of course, except maybe for 100 and 200. Wear an HRM during the mile and the 5 K and record the patterns.

I would, however, guess, that your aerobic conditioning is still not where it should be. If you did 70 miles a week of easy running for a couple of years with no off-season, it would get there.

Were your running mates wearing a watch? Are you running any race on Thanksgiving?

EZ miles ... yeah right!!

I'm not exactly sure what my max heart rate is ... I should actually use my heart rate monitor thingamajig.

My resting heart rate is usually high 40s, low 50s.

So ... you are doing pullups, right? Not chin-ups? Pull-ups stink!

I don't think anyone of us had a watch, or at least no one looked at one.

I hope to do a Turkey trot in Bountiful.

Yeah I'm doing pull-ups. I don't want anyone calling me a sissy when I show great improvement by doing 5 pull ups!

Running without a watch? What planet are you from? I didn't think that was even possible. :)

Hey fly I can't wait to see you tomorrow at the race are you bringing Andy with you?

Andy may show for the kid's k. Kathie, will any of your family be there? I'm not sure if it will be just me, me and my daughter, me and my son and daughter, or if my wife and/or mother-in-law will go as well. To further confuse myself, I'm not sure if or which kid will run which race. I ask because I may need a place to park a kid or two while I run the 5k. Oh well, one way or another it will all work out.

Fly I will be there with my daughter, Mom, Kimmy and her daughter. We are all running the 5k. I think that the rest of my family is going to play flag foot ball so they will not be there but if we have an extras come to cheer we are always up for watching kids.

Good luck tomorrow Fly. You cant wait to hear how you do. Up for a little friendly challenge??

Saying you're a geologist for your day job begs the question, "What do you for your night job?"

Costumed crimefighter?

Hey Super Spud, I hope you have a great race and a wonderful Thanksgiving!

Happy Thanksgiving Fly. Hope you do awesome at your 5k. Which I am sure you did.

Where's your 5K report?

You can run a sub-20 anytime ... THAT WAS A PERFECT RACE!!

A huge congrats to you, and especially your daughter! AWESOME AWESOME AWESOME!!!

Very cool.

VERY COOL!!! What a great Daddy-Daughter 5k!!! :D

Great run man!!! I really need to get out and run some hills. I've been a flatlander since St. George.

Dale

Nice running Mark. Hill runs are great training, and those were some nice times on 12 & 13!

Great job Fly. Looks like your city creek run went alot better this week then last one. Nice job at the race too.

That's still a great run!!!

Dale

Nice run, with a cool name. Did you name it yourself or is that from some training plan. I think I'll start naming my runs.

Hey my dog woke me up last night to... maybe it is a conspiracy and they are out to take over the world by not letting us sleep.

Anyway you workouts always seem so cool where do you come up with them? Or is that your trade secret?

LOL your awesome man. Great run. You got some good speed on those interval man. Nice work. All that hill training is making you such a good fast strong runner.

WOW, AWESOME FFIs. Here's my {{{ HIGH 5}}}

Here is my super secret training plan (complete with FFIs): http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-244--6851-4-2X5X8-4,00.html

Shh.... don't tell my dog.

Fatigue Fighter Intervals are cool. Maybe I'll try some for my speed work. Looks like you are going to be ready to blast through Painters. Keep up the good work.

I hope so Rhett. But who knows what race day will bring. What I do know is that I'm always faster while sitting at my desk thinking about running, than when actually running.

Now that we know your "secret training" plan we will be able to ride you if you start to slack. Keep up the good work.

How fast do you do 100m repeats? I notice they were in the marathon training I did last year and I was never sure if I was suppose to be going all out or not.

Rhett, Just that you are there with a big stick will keep me from slacking:)

Kathie, This is what the plan says: "Over 100 meters, gradually accelerate to 90% of all-out, hold it for 5 seconds, then decelerate. Walk to full recovery after each." I'm not sure I do them just as stated. What I shoot for is, over about 100m build up to a very strong effort, hold it, then slow back to an easy pace. I haven't been walking afterwards.

You're following the training plan to the T. We are gonna follow (er, watch) your training very closely. Better not disappoint us. No pressure.

Cool picture.

Have you ran Painter's before?

I'm still seeing your kids with the legs. Must be my computer.

Those are very nice even splits for 4 mile tempo. Yes, you can imagine running that pace for 13.1. No, you won't keep it at that pace. On the uphill you'll be running 6:56 or 7:06; on the downhill you'll be doing 6:36 or 6:26, blah blah blah. Factor in the adrenaline, you will be running 6:06 a good portion of the course. It's only week 3 of your 9 weeks schedule. There are still 45 days to train. I'd say you're right on target. Unless we catch you slacking. :)

Cool picture!!!

I was thinking the same thing when I ran that 5k last week. I was planning on running Painter's between 9:45 and 10:00 min pace. I might have to bump that up a little. But who knows, maybe the lower elevation help me. It usually does.

Half marathon pace never feels right during training. Trust the race day magic.

Oh thank you all for the warm and fuzzy comments. I kind of needed that right now.

I ran Painters in 07, which was 2 years ago. It was the year of frigid cold.

Fly,

You know you will ace Painters and you know that you will keep whatever pace you need to (isn't that what you always do? Yes.).

Btw, on a side note: I now and then look over some of the comments on the infamous never-ending discussion where you occasionally post. I know myself well enough to know that I have to be careful with what I say and to whom or I can cause myself a lot of restless nights (horrible that I let things bother me so much sometimes when I feel strongly about something). Anyway, I appreciate your "off the cuff" comments. I love that people can discuss such topics, but hate that religion can cause so much hurt. Anyway ... I have already said too much.

Laters!

Just to clarify what I said ... I do love religion, especially when it is used to love, serve, and uplift others (which I believe is what its purpose is). I have just seen it inappropriately used(in history and in my personal life)more often than I would like to admit. That's all.

(I actually tried to delete my previous comment, but the computer wouldn't let me. I have no problems having these type of conversations with individuals, but am not quite comfortable in a situation like this.)

Hope you don't think I'm crazy!!

I'll stick to running and pullup conversations from now on!! :)

Hey Fly, do you know if there is an elevation chart for Painters available anywhere?

oh, and great job on your tempo run! i think you could do that over 13.1 (for similar reasons stated by Smooth)

Cal,

I have the elevation on my watch. I'm trying to figure out how to download/copy it right now.

Sorry Cal ... for the life of me I can't figure it out!

Just want to say you're awesome-sauce.

Great work out man. That was a tough run. I havent ran Painters so not sure what goal pace I will have. From what it sounds like your going for a 1:30 that would be awesome. Clean clear plans. You will do awesome.

Cal, I don't know of an elevation chart but there are a couple of course tools for it.

Log in, click on the "course tool" link on the left, click on the "show all courses link," then search or scroll down and you'll find tools for Painters 08 and 07. You probably already know all this but if you click on "Analyze" you can enter a goal pace or finish time and it will provide split times adjusted for elevation change.

I haven't yet figured out how the tool works and I'm not sure how accurate it is. The splits given for 07 and 08 are a bit different.

Teena, I'm glad you could not delete that post. It and the subsequent one uplifted my spirit emensly. Thank you.

And thank you Kungfublonde.

Rachel's stepdad works for the NPS. The girls called him Papa Yosemite. After he transferred to Death Valley, they didn't update his name, thankfully.

Got to love the recovery runs with someone. Helps to keep it nice and easy.

No cross training? No dips? No pull ups or chin ups?

I'm with Smooth ... where's the pullups??? (Remember, you are the one that solicited constructive criticism ... or did you say "rude remarks?") Either way, Smooth and I want to know!!

(nice job on your recovery run)

Ok, ok, ok.... I'm terrible about strength training. Teena, is there an official place to post pull ups? (I do appreciate the constructive criticism and the past attempts at rude remarks have made me laugh a happy laugh :) )

The master list (which I need to update today) is on my entry for the 28th (I think). So you just tell me your baseline and I will put it in.

Fly, you are TOO FUNNY!!! I LOVE your "race report". You crack me up about "showing up 3 months ealy because your training schedule calls for a 5K race". Quit being so dang consistent! even the 20:00 was freakishly consistent. I am certain that you will get your sub-20. What a hoot! GREAT JOB & CONGRATULATIONS for being the FIRST and LAST at your 5K race this morning. You're AWESOME! Love reading your report as always.

Okay ... here is the real question Fly (this is of extreme importance): Did you look at your time on your watch before you pushed stop? Or ... did you push stop before you looked? If you looked before pushing I am 100% convinced that you actually ran a 19:59.6666. However, if you pushed before looking ... well ... at least you are consistent!!

So ... did you look or not?

(either way, you're way too fast)

Fly - I know you would have been so much faster with someone to push you... well maybe not if you are self motivated enough the throw your own 5k you might run really fast without any competition. I for one need someone on my tail to push me.

Nice job man. We will have to run another 5k to help push each other. We are so close to breaking that sub 20. Great report cant wait to read the one in 3 months.

I can't wait to hear the official results either. I'm sure it will come in at 19:59. Anyways, there truely is something to be said for running in a pack and you did that by yourself. You would have been a good 20 seconds faster with others out there pushing you. I'm calling it a 19:40.

Mark,

Where did you run your 10 miles? How was it?

Dale

Mark...

I hope things go better for you today or tomorrow. I'm still debating whether or not I want to run today.

Sorry to hear about your colleague. That's rough.

Take care,

Dale

Some days are like that. The mind is such a funny thing. It's good to be flexible with our training. We never know what life throws at us. Sorry to hear about your colleague. Hey you still got 5.75 miles done with 3 at mp. You will have a better workouts today.

My condolences. It really puts things in perspective.

Mark, sorry to about your colleague.

Running in the snow is probably a completely different beast. Glad you stuck it out and got through your workout. That's dedication.

Sorry about your colleague.

You are way better than I am when I saw the weather I headed right for the gym!

That is much better than my 6 sets of "none"

p.s. That is a great link. Neutral-grip is my fave.

Sweet run! And you picked up the pace with each repeat. Don't you love it when it all comes together and you have a great day? I just wish that would happen on race day more often.

WOW!! Sounds like really progress man. Is that the guy that ran the 5k with us?? Great job and lower heart rates. Your getting stronger and faster.

Sounds all good to me!

(look at those paces ... that's some serious speed)

You deserve a great day like that!

Where have you been Fly??

Did you get a long run in this weekend? How did it go?

Mark, That was a great mile repeat interval workout and FAST splits. What's up the last few days? Hope all's well with ya.

Mark, Yeah that's the same guy that ran ahead of us. I'm sure he'll still kick my buttocks at the next 5k.

Teena and Smooth. I've just been really busy as of late. I've been getting my runs in but only just now posted them.

Lickety-split, I tell you!!

"sports beans" made me laugh. I've never heard of those. And apparently I have funny bone of a 3 year old.

An awesome long run with great paces and some hill workout. It's easy to forget what and when to refuel with the first long run of the winter. I tried sport jelly beans once and they seem to take longer to absorb. I think you'd have to "spread" it out, like eat 6 every mile.

Way to get out there in that miserable weather. And nice run Sunday. You really rocked that workout. 6:47 goal pace, what is the time goal there, 1:28?

Good run. Is your "today" Mon Dec 15 as posted? Cause Tuesday which is your "tomorrow" is now today Dec 16 and the road condition is worse. No way I could have done any kinda speed work on the road. I'm hoping for better weather tomorrow (Wed) too.

Smooth so who's on first? and when will it be the day after yesterday?

Today is Tuesday and the conditions were slightly better on this section of the Jordan River Parkway. I did my speed work and will post about it in a moment or three.

Rhett, My pie in the sky ultimate goal is to run 2:59:59 at St. George. So I entered this time into Sasha's Utah race time predictor and have been using the predicted race paces at various distances as training goals. For example enter 2:59:59 and it predicts 1:29:00 / 6:47 for a flat half in Salt Lake.

Painter's is not flat but it is about 1,700 feet lower than Salt Lake. So, I'm training for a 6:47 pace. Who knows what I'll actually be able to run, but that's what I'm aiming for. I keep thinking about how hard those little hills are going to be.

Fly, I can never gauge hills by elevation charts. Sounds like you have run Painter's. How are the hills and where do they fall in the race?

With as hard as you have been working and knowing how good a shape you are in, especially after the grand slam yesterday, I think you can definitely go sub 3 at SGM in O9.

I don't remember any significant hills, just a bunch of annoying little ones. Just enough to make you question your pacing if you are already pushing it. Have you looked at the course tool for Painter's?

I can't seem to find the course info on-line. I just keep gettting something from Active.com but I can't find the link to the elevation chart.

Rhett,

On the calendar page after you sign in, there's a link to Course Tool to the left. Click on Course Tool and find a lists of many races other bloggers have posted about various courses. I'll try to link it here and see if it works.

http://fastrunningblog.com/course.php

Hmm, looks like it only links to the main page. Click show all courses and sroll down about halfway, you'll find Painter's posted by James W.

What Smooth said,plus if you scroll further you'll find Painter's 07.

Thanks Mark.

Mark, you're amazing! Speedworkout on cruddy snow trail! Take a look at that 6:10!!! You are SO ready for Painter's.

AWESOME FFI workout!!!

Hmm, I might have to try the screw shoes thingie. With all that remodeling we've done lately, I'm sure I know how to screw my shoes. Any trick to 'em besides short screws and a screw driver? How many or how far apart would you say the screws need to be?

"Any trick to 'em besides short screws and a screw driver? How many or how far apart would you say the screws need to be?" I have no idea. Just guess and try em out. You can always add more or take some out.

You all are seriously putting regular screws into your old shoes??? Hmmm ... interesting. Will you post a pic of your shoes fly?? I work better with illustrations!! :)

(awesome and torturous workout btw)

See this months RunnersWorld. There is a whole article on how to do it. Just don't use too long of screws or those shoes will really hurt your feet.

Nice run Fly.

You also have to watch out if your shoes have gel in them so you don't puncher the gel. They talk about this in runners world too.

Cool

LOL :)

LOL quick and strong young lady I would say. Nice job getting out.

It wouldn't wear you out if you didn't run so stinkin' fast!!!!!!

(Nice!!)

I can't believe you can run that fast on trails. Wow!!! You should run the Mid Mountain Marathon. You'd probably win.

The fact that you are doing speed work on the terrain that you are is very impressive. The pace is irrelevant, it is the effort that counts and you are definitely putting in the effort.

Actually I was just running on the Jordan River Parkway. After about 10th North the trail is not plowed. And the pavement ends a bit beyond that. But there is no elevation change.

Fly your a animal out there running in this weather. Did you see anyone else out there on the trail??

I'm with Mark on this one! When I can actually hear the wind howling inside of my nice cozy bed ... that's my sign to hit the treadmill.

Hey fly do you set your Garmin to beep every minute? Is this your long run for the week or is this interval work or both?

I always love to read about your super cool super secret workouts.

This was my long run for the week. (By necessity my weeks start on Monday). I did not set the Garmin to beep every minute. That would require reading the directions... and I probably wouldn't hear the beep anyway. I just look at my wrist a lot.

Nice run Fly!!! Wow, you ran just about everywhere today.

Dale

Cool run!! Glad you had such a good time! (Remind me how much fun it is to run in a winter wonderland ... I tend to forget!)

You're getting fast Fly. Nice marathon paced miles there near the end of a 16 mile run. Wow!

Looks like you were able to keep your pace pretty well even with the dead legs. Nice work out. I too am trying to juggle my normal running schedule so I can make Christmas Day a rest day and still get in my important runs.

Nice workout and nice data.

You earned those easy miles, you've really been working it lately. Have a Merry Christmas.

Merry Christmas!!!

Have a good one.

Dale

Merry Christmas Mark!

AWESOME long run and speed workout earlier in the week. Hope you had a great Christmas.

Nice run fly. Sorry to hear you are feeling ill, get will soon.

Nice running. Looks like you faught the fatigue. Your second one was just as fast as you first.

I hope you get feeling better fly! You are a better man than me to get out when you are sick.

Great job. I love reading all the details of your runs.

Wow! Back to back to back hard runs! Those RunnersWorld people are trying to kill you with their 1/2 marathon plan. I'm sure it will only make you stronger and faster though.

Don't you boys know what it means to take it easy now and then!

A 6:46 average with phlem ... you're pretty dang hardcore Fly!!

Ahem, you're tough beyond limits!!! Can't wait to read about your pace run tomorrow. Hope it's phlem-free.

Phlem and goal pace miles two things I always look forward too.... :(

Hope you are planning on taking it easy tomorrow. You did really well today considering that it was your 3rd speed workout in a row.

Happy New Year Mark!!

Seriously ... 3 speed workouts in one week? Man!!

Here's to a great year for you and your family!